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Welcome to the Wild West Podcast, winner of the 2026 Best of Western Podcast award, where fact and legend merge. We present the true accounts of individuals who settled in towns built out of hunger for money, regulated by fast guns, who walked on both sides of the law, patrolling, investing in, and regulating the brothels, saloons, and gambling houses. These are stories of the men who made the history of the Old West come alive - bringing with them the birth of legends, brought to order by a six-gun and laid to rest with their boots on. Join us as we take you back in history to the legends of the Wild West. You can support our show by subscribing to Exclusive access to premium content at Wild West Podcast + https://www.buzzsprout.com/64094/subscribe or just buy us a cup of coffee at https://buymeacoffee.com/wildwestpodcast
Wild West Podcast
Survival and Tragedy in the Wild West: The Gruesome Ordeal of the German Family and the Amazing Survival Story of Julia and Addie
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Journey back in time with us to the unforgiving plains of 1870s Kansas. Today, we're sharing the bone-chilling tale of the John German family who faced an unimaginable ordeal. September 11, 1874, was a day that would see their lives torn apart by Medicine Wat and his band of 17 Cheyenne warriors. Our special guest, Scott Dean, joins us to offer his valuable insights on this heartrending piece of history.
In our exploration of this dark period, we shed light on the brutal reality of the Wild West, with its harsh conditions that gave rise to such horrific attacks. We'll shine a spotlight on the four German children taken hostage, focusing on the harrowing survival story of the two youngest girls, Julia and Addie. Left abandoned on the dangerous plains of Texas, we'll ponder over what made their captors spare them. How did these innocent young girls survive for six weeks in the wild? Tune in to find out.
Our conversation wouldn't be complete without examining the wider implications of this story. We tap into Scott's expertise to unveil the ultimate fate of the German sisters and to reflect on this tragic incident from a broader perspective. This isn't just a story of survival and tragedy; it's a slice of history that demands to be heard. So, hitch up your wagon, and join us on this gripping journey through the annals of the Wild West. You won't want to miss this one.
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The German Family Ambush
Speaker 1On September 11 , 1874 , the John German family consisting of his wife and seven children were attacked by a band of Cheyenne east of Fort Wallace , kansas . Only four of the children , catherine , sophia , julie and Adelaide were spared and taken captive . The two youngest , julia and Adelaide , aged seven and five , were subsequently abandoned on the prairie in what is now the Texas Panhandle . Catherine and Sophia were kept by their Cheyenne captors . Wild West Podcast proudly presents the story of the German family ambush with our special guest afterwards , mr Scott Dean . While in the staked plains area searching for the retreating Comanche and Apache war parties , miles received word of a family being ambushed by 17 Cheyenne dog soldiers . The dead were John German , aged 44 , lydia , his wife , aged 44 , rebecca Jane , aged 20 , stefan , aged 19 , and Joanna , aged 15 . Carried away as captives were Catherine , aged 17 , sophia , aged 12 , julia , aged 7 , and Adelaide , aged 5 . After a season of plowing on the Osage Indian Reservation , john German decided to leave the beautiful rolling prairie of Elgin , kansas , to finish his dream . He wanted to reach Colorado before the first snowfall . In addition to wages , the family left Elgin having earned an additional milk cow , two calves and several chickens .
Speaker 1The John German family consisted of his wife and seven children left on August 15 , 1874 . They had been on the westward trail for over four years . The family made rapid headway as they moved northwestward across Kansas . They were in Ellis City , kansas , a few miles west of Fort Hayes by early September . John planned to push another dozen miles north and follow the Kansas-specific railroad westward into Colorado . However , several local citizens advised John to take the old stagecoach route along the Smoky Hill River a few miles to the south , because of the lack of water along the railroad . In answer to John's apprehensions about the safety of the route , he was told that there had been no problems in the area for years . And so the German family lumbered forward along the Smoky Hill Road and for several days' travel at least 75 miles they witnessed not a single dwelling nor another human being Unknown to them .
Speaker 1There were terrible threats ahead on the trail , for far to the south a fierce Indian war had broken out and extended northward into the Kansas Plains . On June 27 , 1874 , hundreds of Indians had attacked Buffalo Hunters at Adobe Walls , 300 miles to the south in the Texas Panhandle . Badly mauled in the attack , the angry warriors split into small bands and turned against any whites . They could find One of the raging bands across the plains from the south consisted of 17 Cheyenne warriors under medicine water . Two Indian women accompanied them , one of whom Moky . The wife of medicine water , had lost her first husband and most of her family at the hands of white troops in the 1864 massacre of her village on Sand Creek , colorado Territory .
Speaker 1By September 10 , 1874 , the nine members of the German family had marched into the wild in secluded plains of west central Kansas . Still on that day , the family met two men driving a wagon eastward who told them that they were within a day's journey of Fort Wallis , near the Colorado border . The entire family was relieved to learn that they were approaching a settlement again and were close to the end of their long and arduous journey . They camped for the night on a dry creek bed , from which John secured water by digging a hole in the sand . Johanna and Catherine gathered wood for a fire , while Sophia fed the chickens and John and Stefan milked the cows . After supper , the adults and older children remained awake longer than usual , excited by the prospect of seeing people again on the following day . That night , perhaps bothered by some instinctive fear , john and Stefan stood watch armed with their only weapons , two old muzzle-loading rifles .
Speaker 1The family was up at dawn on September 11 and looked out at the verdant landscape before them , as if taking in the mighty breaths of country , pure air . Then , with breakfast made , the oxen were hitched and the wagon was on its way . John walked in the lead with his rifle , as if the path ahead of him had a way of exciting his emotions , as if he may have realized trouble was afoot . Stefan and Catherine went a brief stretch to the north of the wagon to drive in the milk cows and the calves from their grazing ground . Then , unexpectedly , sweeping out of a ravine a short distance to the southwest , came medicine waters , screaming Cheyenne's Overcome by shock and hysteria .
Speaker 1The German family were easy victims . John turns , but too slowly to be expected when he speaks . His voice trailed slowly , like his words were unwilling to take flight . There's a sadness in his eyes and his panic overwhelms him as he fades away . At a moment's notice , john German was shot down . The warrior woman , moki , jumped from her horse and planted an axe in John's skull . Lydia German was murdered as she desperately strived to aid her husband , and Rebecca , seizing an axe to fight the Indians , was also bashed down .
Speaker 1Stefan escaped from the scene toward a ridge on the northeast but was easily ridden down and butchered . Catherine was hit in the thigh , but a big Indian jumped from his horse , pulled out the arrow and galloped back to the wagon with the girl , using the five surviving sisters together . The Indians forced all the girls to take off their bonnets and compare their hair . Joanne's hair was the longest , so a rifle was pressed against her body and she was murdered . Five-year-old Adelaide began to wail and was rescued only by the intervention of the second Indian woman who claimed the child . All of the five dead Germans were then scalped and mutilated . The Cheyenne set fire to the wagon and in the morning sun came the golden glow , with the heat given by the burning of the fire . The sounds of the victims fell silent and the smell of death circled in the air .
Speaker 1The war party mounted their captives on horses and proceeded southward , driving the Germans' oxen and milk cows before them , retrieving their saddles and gear . The Indians soon stopped and slaughtered the cattle , offering the four captives half-cooked meat which they were too frightened to eat . The captives were also divided . The Indian woman who saved Adelaide claimed her , while her husband accepted Julia when word of the German family reached miles in his men finding the four kidnapped girls became their new mission . Bat Masterson and the Scouts learned that the dog soldiers had entered the panhandle . They also heard that the German sisters had been separated , with two girls going with a band headed by Greybeard and the other two with Stonecalf .
Speaker 1The Cheyenne bands , and the white girls with them , proved very elusive as the weeks passed . Incredibly frustrating was the thought that two or all four of the German sisters had been brought hundreds of miles to Mexico and traded away there . If so , they would never be recovered . The Scouts consoled themselves that Cheyenne was not known to go that far south , away from their hunting grounds and familiar surroundings . They kept searching and hoping . The Scouts found Greybeard's camp on November 7 . A few days earlier the more experienced ones had speculated that the Cheyenne would follow their routine and begin to set up a winter camp near McClellan Creek . So miles dispatched a contingent of soldiers and Scouts to find out . On the morning of the 8th , bat Masterson and the Scouts arrived atop a slope near the creek . When they looked down they spotted dozens of teepees along the creek .
Speaker 1After the Scouts reported the location of the Indian camp , frank Baldwin became an impulsive and brave man . Baldwin did not wait for company N to arrive and decided to attack immediately . The Lieutenant loaded his infantry into supply wagons , the cavalry , the infantry and wagons , and the Scouts charged the camp on order . Even the Limbered Howitzer rolled forward on the line with the troops . The shouts of the soldiers , the rumbling of the wagons , the crack of carbines and the repeated bugle calls sent the village into a panicked flight . Never before had the Cheyenne seen such a sight .
Speaker 1Blue-clad soldiers rode into the village in wagons and shot over the sides . These Cheyennes were entirely taken by surprise . Baldwin had taken advantage of the Indians' lack of security . He had increased that advantage with the shock action of the infantry fighting in wagons while moving quickly along the terrain . Lieutenant Baldwin's attack was immediately successful . The Cheyennes left everything except the horses they rode when escaping . During the brief battle , most of the inhabitants of the village fled .
Speaker 1After chasing the Indians several miles , the white troops returned to the abandoned camp where General Miles appeared with four troops of cavalry . As some of the soldiers stood surveying the village , an Indian galloped up and shot at a pile of buffalo robes lying nearby on the ground . One of the soldiers immediately killed the Indian Found by movement under the robes . A soldier carefully raised them with a rifle barrel and discovered Julia German hidden beneath . A search of the teepees led to the discovery of Adelaide nearby . The children were so emaciated and weak that the younger child could not walk without falling down . Bat Masterson later recalled that their little hands looked like bird's claws . Bat Masterson and the soldiers in the command were obviously very shaken by the pathetic condition of the children , and one of the sergeants openly wept .
Speaker 1Today we have a special guest , scott Dean . Scott Dean is the great grandson of Julia German and her second husband , albert Brooks . Her first husband died while she was pregnant with their third child . Mr Dean has directed music in classical sanctuary worship services for 39 years , developing music programs and leaders to give voice to singers of all ages . He has conducted research in early music in London , paris and Rome , contributed to professional publications and has held leadership positions in the American Choral Directors Association .
Speaker 1This podcast is a follow-up story on the German family ambush of September 11 , 1874 , near Fort Wallace , kansas . Thank you so much for Scott agreeing to join us this Wednesday . What Mike has found during his time researching the German family story is that there seems to be some inconsistencies among various writers about the historical accounts of the German family ambush . What we hope to do here is to get a first-person account . As it was told by your great-grandmother , julia German , during the Red River War , while searching for the retreating Comanche and Apache War parties in the Stake Plains area , miles received word of a family being ambushed by 17 Cheyenne dog soldiers . The dead were John German , age 44 , lydia , his wife , age 44 , rebecca Jane , age 20 , stefan , age 19 , and Joanna , age 15 . Right away as captives were Catherine , age 17 , sophia , age 12 , julia , age 7 , and Adelaide , age 5 . Before the ambush and capture of the German girls , where did John German and his family live before leaving Elgin , kansas , on August 15 , 1874 , scott
Family's Journey West and Tragic Ambush
Speaker 1.
Speaker 2Well , since the end of the Civil War , with John German's health being compromised from incarceration and Union POW camps , rock Island in particular , and his small Fanning County Georgia farm devastated after the war , he had been dreaming of a better life and had received the letter from a friend encouraging him to travel west to Colorado . He couldn't raise the money for a train or even a wagon train association , so he decided to work his way west . On April 10 , 1870 , the family of nine , with six girls and one boy from their midteens to toddler age they said they're goodbyes and headed northwest , crossing the Tennessee River , traveling the Cumberland toll road and , after three weeks on the road , arriving in Florida , texas , tennessee . So John and son Stephen worked on a plantation and the girls worked in homes for three months trying to secure enough funds to continue on through Tennessee , kentucky and across the Mississippi to Howell County in Missouri . There they traded their auction and wagon for a home set , I think it was about 160 acres , with a cabin .
Speaker 2In 1871 , the entire family was working for low wages , just struggling , doing whatever they could , including going up to Arkansas to pick cotton no-transcript .
Speaker 2So I think malaria ran through the family in 18 at the end of that year and through 1872 , and they couldn't even pay the 50 cent taxes on the homestead . In the spring of 1873 John exchanged the homestead for a wagon and a team of oxen to travel 150 miles northwest near Hurley I think it is Missouri where they stayed with Lydia's uncle Rufus , a long established and prosperous pioneer there . After four months of work they traveled on to Elgin where they stayed for 10 months with John and his older children working on the Osage Reservation , starting with breaking sod in the winter . Can you imagine what that was like ? It had been 10 years since John's dream of a better life in Colorado and so after about four and a half years of rugged travel and hard itinerant work , john and his family had earned minimal funds for travel expenses , the food and the family . They traveled over 800 miles on foot , so 700 miles of the Kansas plain and the severe drought stood between them and their dream homesteading in Colorado . Did they know that was the least of their worry ?
Speaker 1So what happened then , on the dawn of September 11th 1874 , which would be the day of the ambush ?
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Speaker 2They were advised to take the Butterfield Overland Desk Badge trail
(Cont.) Family's Journey West and Tragic Ambush
Speaker 2because there was a drought and John wanted to follow the train route where he hoped to be able to have water on his travels . They were advised that they wouldn't even be able to buy a cup and that going along the Smoky Hill trail , near the Smoky Hill trail river and the dispatch that they would at least have contact with even a dry bed that could dig out some water . So they were traveling , took refuge one night , going slightly off the trail and down into a small belly where the creek off the river was Six Mile Creek , I believe , and there they camped for the night . Father went and dug into the creek and brought up some water and they cleaned it up and they had supper and went to bed and the next morning hooked their oxen back up and went up the ridge and were surprised by this band of fierce dog soldiers . They probably scouted them out the night before . I was at the site recently surveying the area , and they spoke with the owner of the property , randy Yunkin , and the Smoky Y Ranch Wonderful , wonderful , gracious people and they shared with me their sort of forensic sequencing together of the land , based on the story , the documents that the girls provided .
Speaker 2The Indians were likely in a ravine a little south of them and came out of that ravine at the top of a splite rise where the Germans . They met the Germans coming up . They disbanded all of their tax and other things and attacked the family . One was out in front and he had a rifle and even in the Civil War he told his children that he shot over the heads of his enemies because he didn't want to kill another father and be responsible for a homeless family , our fatherless family . So he didn't even get a shot off .
Speaker 2Mochi , who was a Buffalo calf woman and a fierce female raider of part of the dog soldiers which is pretty unusual and medicine water , led the band of 17, . They killed John right away . Mochi put a hatchet in his hand . They shot Steven , who was out shooting looking for game . They killed Lydia mother , who was pregnant at the time and we won't go into how she was treated . And then their eldest daughter came out of the wagon and grabbed the hatchet and tried to attack one of the Indians and she was killed on the spot . Another .
Speaker 2The other daughters , rebecca , jane and the four girls that were eventually taken captive , were then taken and it was deciding . The Indians wanted to . They stood them up next to the wagon , wanted to decide who was going to go with them and who they were going to leave . They took the bonnets off and , based on the hair and the scalp , they decided who would stay and who would go . They're a little story . We're not really sure whether Rebecca Jane was killed on the spot or if she was killed later on the trail . The four girls then were taken hostage the 17 year old Catherine , 12 year old Lafiyah , seven year old Julia , my great grandmother and her little sister Addie . Later the massacre had been discovered by hunters , was reported to Fort Wallace . They investigated . They found the family Bible and that's how the soldiers knew that the girls had been taken hostage .
Speaker 1What was life like then for the younger girls while in captivity ? And why do you think little squaw became protective of the girls ?
Speaker 2In short , I think I'll call her little s woman out of respect . In short , I think little s woman was empathetic . She was the niece of Stonecalf , who was one of the first chiefs to move his starving and desolate people onto the reservation while others held out and battled . He later dissuaded other young bucks from revenge raiding parties that began their unsuccessful attack on the buffalo hunters and others at Adobe Walls . The dogs sold to attack the German family and perhaps others . Their entire family and tribe were murdered by Shivington and the color of the Sand Creek massacre of 1864 and Custer's infamous Washington massacre in 1868 . Two events that forever changed the relationship between natives and the United States . So perhaps little s woman wasn't filled with , wasn't filled with 10 years of trauma , outrage , hatred . So the white soldiers who murdered her entire tribe and family in cold blood at Sand Creek and Washington , as Mochi and Madison Water were . The experience of the two younger girls , julian Addick , is quite different than that of 12-year-old Sophia and 17-year-old Catherine . We know more of Catherine's story than Sophia's thanks to the work of Grace Meredith , who's the author of the Girl Captives of the Cheyenne , published at the book in 1828 or 1928 . It's a 112-page book by Meredith , the niece of Catherine , and it tells us in the first person of the account of her aunt .
Speaker 2Catherine and Sophia were in captivity for five months , from September 11 , 1874 until early March 1875 . So when the loot and the captors were divided among the attackers after the massacre , little s woman chose Addick , since she saved her life when a rifle was placed at the five-year-old's head to silence her crying . Her husband , possibly Blackburn , chose Julia , catherine indicates they seemed compassionate compared with the others in the party . So first Catherine came the property of the fierce 42-year-old medicine water . Sophia was by a younger warrior and they neared well , they were tied up and taken south towards Medicine Waters Camp . When they neared Medicine Waters Camp , girl was placed on a bareback pony behind her captor , who had dressed in their fiercest , finest attire and painted their faces . Their mother and sisters , blonde hair , along with their fathers and brothers' scouts , were attached to the warrior's rifles and blowing in the breeze is the War Party race across the prairie for four or five miles and telephonies were good , wet and lathered up . Then , charging through the camp of about 300 lodges , they were attacked from all sides by screaming , shrieking men and women and children , all tugging , ganking , pulling at the girls to pull them off their mount . Some of the Indians seemed sympathetic , others just really mean .
Speaker 2Here are Catherine's words , describing their introduction to the encampment as trophies of the raiding party . From my cousins , arlene Johnson's Democcusen Speaks she says I clothes were torn from me , I was stripped naked and painted by the old squaws and made the wife of the chief who could catch me when fastened upon the back of a horse which was sent loose on the prairie . I don't know what . The Indian caught me . I was made the victim of their desires , nearly all of the tribe and quit in time and again . So I have no doubt that the same occurred to 12-year-old Addy or Sophia . Sophia's capture was bear shield . He won the privilege of keeping her since nobody had snatched her . Bear shield traded Sophia to Wolfrobe , the leading warrior of Greybeard's band and 20 years older I think , and he may have traded her to Sandhill . I believe she was bartered or shared with many by her owners . Catherine was yanked from her capture scores by an Indian woman , wasathi . Wasathi became her Indian mother and her 53-year-old husband Longback her father . There's another report that came up that I'd see later , that Longback had purchased Catherine from Black Moon . So while in the camp they weren't allowed , the girls weren't allowed to be together and were separated , each with their own owner and their own camps , the majority of the time in captivity . There's just some confusion and contradictory reports in who had who's when and that needs clarity and I look forward to figuring that out , setting the research and books and working with Anita Gullet who has a microfiche of all of the National Archives on this down in Tampa .
Speaker 2So Indian Plains women they did all the heavy lifting the firewood , water gathering for group distances , carrying heavy snow to turn into water , butchering , tanning all the hard work . They were also very chaste . They slept with chastity ropes to carrying their ankles and knees together . When the girls were sent to collect water at night alone , you can guess what happened they were assaulted by young bucks .
Speaker 2Catherine was receptive to learning the Cheyenne language . She and her Indian brother it's right , an Indian brother , quite bilingual , and there are stories of closeness with her Indian mother , wafi Theta . When they were in private they were pretty close , but in front of others she was mean , as she was expected to be . Younger sofas seem to understand the advantage of learning the language , so she didn't try . Cheyenne women chopped wood for Catherine in exchange for sewing bright clothing on their dresses . The men in the ways were pleased when she sewed their shirts with stitch buttoned holes , with bone buttons .
Speaker 2The girls relieved their anxiety , depression and fear through working hard and never considered work slavery but actually gifts from God to keep their minds active and to relieve just a lot of hurt in their hearts . Sophia was certain her life was spared because she continually worked . They were both a commodity to be traded and bartered , and a pure Sophia may have borne the front of that more than Catherine . However , catherine , being age 17 , seems to have suffered more degradation than Sophia . Catherine seems to have suffered greater from PTSD , but we'll never really really know . All of them for a lot of pain throughout their lives .
Speaker 2While Sati and Catherine , at one point she was old enough to be married and Catherine refused , of course . One night Catherine was terribly frightened when a warrior tried to carry her to his lodge , for if he succeeded then she would become his wife . So she fought like a tiger . He threw her to the ground and Catherine understood the warrior to say ''Wasati , I will not take her off your fights'' . She says ''Wasati had bartered Catherine , actually to the highest bidder'' . So there's stories of Wasati's kindness and care and others that neglect , hostility and abuse . To paint it all one way or the other , it really isn't fair . So Stonecalf eventually convinced Medicine , water and Gravebeard to surrender the hostages after many weeks of further suffering and death at the Cheyenne during the deadly winter of 1874 and due to starvation , colostic shelter , clothing , cooking supplies from the numerous Arbiant taxes , desecration of their lands .
Speaker 1Scott , that is a fascinating and awful story . Thank you for sharing all of that with us . So on November 8th Baldwin's troops had stumbled upon Gravebeard's camp . Medicine Water , who led the attack on the German family in Kansas , had been in the camp as well . Gravebeard himself had come into possession of Sophia German , but managed to get her away during Baldwin's attack . What happened to Sophia ?
Speaker 2Well , so we know less about Sophia than we do Catherine ? Sophia went through , so this is where I'm a little fuzzy , and this is a difficult question to answer specifically . We don't have a real timeline of Sophia and we've got more work to do to really understand , you know , the number of people that she was parted to and her experiences .
Speaker 1So during the brief battle , most of the village inhabitants fled to fight another day . Those that left behind were the elderly , as some of the soldiers that surveying the village and Indian galloped up and shot at a pile of buffalo robes laying nearby on the ground . The Indian was immediately killed . Why do you suppose the Indian sacrificed his life to shoot at the buffalo robes , and what did the soldiers find ?
Speaker 2Leave no trace . Anything that the girls would be telling about their captives would be evidence for their captives' murder or their hanging or execution . So he's trying to get rid of the evidence . They didn't want to find the girls alive . They apparently knew that Julia was under the buffalo hives and even if he had gotten the shot off , it's possible that she wanted to have gone through the hives themselves , but thankfully he didn't . Addie was found forging for food in a TP later .
Speaker 1According to some historical accounts then that once Julia and Addie were found , they were emaciated and weak
Julia and Addie's Rescue and Survival
Speaker 1from poor nourishment . What were the condition of the girls and were they treated that poorly by the Cheyenne ? And what happened to Julia and Addie after they were rescued ?
Speaker 2After the massacre all the girls were tied down , taken south by the war party and after about two weeks they arrived in the area of Medicine Waters Camp in the vicinity of present day Pantford , texas McKellen Creek area . So on their way , during a respite on the trail pretty close , about 10 miles away from the encampment , there was some discussion among the captors . Then seven or Julia , five year old , addie , were removed from their horses by two Braves that really not identified in the documents , while the rest of the warriors and their older sisters continued on . So the Braves made motions the little ones to follow , but they couldn't keep up and they were abandoned . They were left behind . There's no mention of little less men or husband , you know , being a part of this . They presumably knew what needed to be done for the good of the tribe . When the Aids caught up with the party without Julia and Addie , catherine and Sophia assumed that they'd been killed . So from roughly the 24th of September to early November , approximately six weeks , these two little ones survive in the plains of the Texas Panhandle naked , with only a stall between the two of them .
Speaker 2I've been in this area last fall and I can tell you the nights can be freezing and the wind . It drops the daytime temperatures 10 degrees or more . I stood on the pitch black darkness of the plains near McClellan Creek with a freezing wind , blowing , coyotes howling . It was terrifying . I can't believe how . I can't imagine what it was like for my great-grandmother and her little sister . It was just unbelievable . But most of their lives I put it in perspective most of the lives of girls had been traveling through the wilderness .
Speaker 2Maddie was a toddler and Julia wasn't much was what two years older . So we can assume their father had taught Julia a few things . For example , she relates that she was taught to sleep in different places to avoid becoming prey for wolves who would come across them and then seek them out with their pack . Later , when they were hungry . She wagon wheel tracks could lead them to white people for Indians and then have wagons . They were without food , water or sugar , but miraculously , and I believe only by God's grace and intervention , they survived by searching for hackberries , wild onions , grapes , rotting plums . There's a wild orchard nearby , according to Anita Gullet , a white deerland museum , there were also grass roots that she related eating .
Speaker 2But the greatest excitement was scourging an old Indian camp in the military post for spilled grains and dried corn and some old hard tack . So the girls made a pack that whatever they found they had share . Julia would venture further out into the wild than Maddie , but at one point Maddie found a biscuit or some hard tack and she couldn't help herself . She devoured the whole thing . Of course she felt horrible about that and later she confessed to Julia and they both wet , holding each other in , rocking and pulling one another .
Speaker 2So we don't know why they were abandoned , why weren't they just killed like so many other young hostages ? But we do know that they were left within striking distance at the camp , and that would be a dead giveaway for any soldier or scout . And they were all over the place looking for medicine , water and the other Cheyenne . Now the Cheyenne relate that they were left on the trail for the army to find . But for me I'm not a specialist but I just doesn't jive with the wisdom and tactics of what I know of the plains Indians .
Speaker 2But in early November , word reach some cast that the youth military was demanding the return of the four girls . They had been , of course , searching for them and he gave orders to find the two younger girls left on the prairie . And one account is a large number of them went in search for them and they found them . They did find them and they returned them to medicine waters camp . Yeah , amazing , just another , just amazing part of the story . It was the day before Baldwin's surprise attack and this happened a couple weeks later . There were torrential , cold hail rain , freezing rain . They surely , they surely , would have died .
Speaker 1Scott , we cannot thank you enough for sharing all of this with us and being a guest on our podcast today , but we would like to ask you a little bit more about what exactly is your personal desire when others retell this story in keeping with the girl's legacy intact , as the story is passed on from one generation to the next ?
Speaker 2You know . I think perspective is really important . We need to understand what occurred before this attack . There's good people and bad people on both sides of the story . We need to .
Speaker 2I believe our culture is in soaring need of empathy and understanding . As they will saying , goes to walk in another's shoe before you can , you can judge their experience . So I would hope that people would would look at this story from both sides . The girls even though they suffered greatly , they came away with heavy hearts for the plight of their captors . The two older girls suffered along with them in that harsh winter of 1875 , january , february . They witnessed the dying , the starvation . The children , the elderly , the infirm . The first to go they carried that with them for the rest of their lives .
Speaker 2And the moxon speaks speaks to tell the perspective of that story in a fair and a balanced way . I would hope that people would would take time to learn one other another story and to give them grace . There's a lot of goodness that's already coming out of of the projects that are going on around this story . I've met many family members and my brothers and sisters , native Nations , have met many of their family members . So there's already a lot of good that's coming out of this story . It's been a pleasure to be with you . I'm so , so happy . I wish I didn't have this story , but I am so happy that I I do have this bit of history in that I can share it and hopefully bring some goodness out of it and healing .
Speaker 1Well , it's got to . I think we're . We're absolutely on your side in that regard too , and we hope that , in sharing this , getting to the the meat of the historical accuracy and hopefully sharing a little bit of that empathy as well , is absolutely what we hope to get out of this also . So thank you again so much .
Speaker 2It's a pleasure to be with you , thank you .
Speaker 1The references used to incorporate historical facts for this episode on the Red River War includes school of advanced military studies , united States Army command and general staff college , fort Leavenworth , kansas , entitled the Red River War 1874 , evidence of operational art and mission command . Charlton Mosley , georgians on the Western frontier . The Cheyenne massacre and captivity of a Fannin County family . The Georgia historical quarterly , volume 76 , number one , georgia Historical Society . That's it for now .
Speaker 1Remember to check out our Wild West podcast shows on iTunes podcast or at Wild West podcast dot . Buzz sproutcom
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Speaker 1. And if you like our shows , be sure to share them on your favorite social media platform . You can also catch us on Facebook at Facebook dot com slash Wild West podcast or on our YouTube channel at whiskey and westerns on Wednesday . Thank you for listening to our podcast . Join us next time as we take you back to the life and times of bat Masterson . Part three gamblers , gunfighters and saloon girls . You can learn more about the legends of Dodd City by visiting our website at worldfamousgunfightersweeblycom . If you'd like to purchase one of our books , you can go to worldfamousgunfightersweeblycom slash books dot . Html .
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