Wild West Podcast
Welcome to the Wild West Podcast, winner of the 2026 Best of Western Podcast award, where fact and legend merge. We present the true accounts of individuals who settled in towns built out of hunger for money, regulated by fast guns, who walked on both sides of the law, patrolling, investing in, and regulating the brothels, saloons, and gambling houses. These are stories of the men who made the history of the Old West come alive - bringing with them the birth of legends, brought to order by a six-gun and laid to rest with their boots on. Join us as we take you back in history to the legends of the Wild West. You can support our show by subscribing to Exclusive access to premium content at Wild West Podcast + https://www.buzzsprout.com/64094/subscribe or just buy us a cup of coffee at https://buymeacoffee.com/wildwestpodcast
Wild West Podcast
Untold Tales of the Santa Fe Trail: A Dive into the Historic Forts of the Wild West and the Untold Story of Fort Dodge
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Promise a journey back in time with us as we unlock the forgotten narratives of Forts Mann and Atkinson, the guardians of the Santa Fe Trail. These key outposts, established in the mid-19th century, played a significant role in the American westward expansion. Yet, the pivotal role of Fort Dodge in securing the frontier has been largely untold. We'll reveal how this fort, nestled along the Arkansas River, was involved in major campaigns to quell the unrest on the plains and facilitated the flourishing commercial frontier. Despite its significant contributions, learn why Fort Dodge was sidelined in the historic preservation movement and its true importance never thoroughly examined.
On this fascinating journey, we are joined by Deb Goodrich, an expert with intimate knowledge of this historical era. Deb will captivate you with tales from the Battle of Solomon Fork and insight into the intriguing life of Jeb Stewart, immortalized by Errol Flynn in the movie Santa Fe Trail. We'll also talk about significant upcoming events like the 200th anniversary of the Santa Fe Trail and the planned docudrama project, Contested Plains, a story about the German family massacre in 1874. And, get a peek into award-winning filmmaker Ken Spurgeon's role in this exciting project. Get ready to traverse the annals of American military history as we uncover the untold stories of the early forts along the Arkansas River.
As a special guest, we invite Deb Goodrich to join us in an in-depth discussion of some stories related to the early forts along the Arkansas River. Books by Deb Goodrich
Award-winning motorcycle stories from a father, brought to life by his son.
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
Fort Dodge and Early Arkansas River Forts
Speaker 1Welcome to Wild West Podcast , a time in early Kansas history when forts were the sentinels along the Santa Fe Trail to protect onward travelers of a westward expansion . In this new series entitled Fort Dodge , the Sentinel to the Cimarron , we will explore the historical timeline of the forts along the Arkansas River Valley . In today's podcast , we will bring you the story of early forts along the Arkansas River to include Fort Mann , established in 1846 , and Fort Atkinson , established in 1850 . Michelle will first present a historical narrative . Shortly after that , we will invite a special guest , deb Goodrich , to join us in an in-depth discussion of some stories related to the early forts along the Arkansas River .
Speaker 1The assistance rendered by Fort Dodge to the expanding frontier was significant , yet it has been largely overlooked in the process of shaping the pattern of American military history . The men of the post were involved as scouts and campaigned almost continuously from 1865 until 1878 . Wiry cavalrymen often found that they had ridden more than 1500 miles during a single season . While guarding the Kansas frontier From 1867 until 1874 , the fort was involved in several major campaigns to eliminate the menace of Indian depredations on the plains , although Fort Dodge was a part of the series of frontier forts that made the settlement of the West possible . Its historical significance has never been comprehensively evaluated . Feasibility studies with similar histories like Fort Scott , larnet and Leavenworth are subject to federal preservation laws which require that buildings be evaluated for national register eligibility and that projects be reviewed to determine their impacts on historic properties . But for various reasons the historic preservation movement left Fort Dodge , a significant frontier fort , behind .
Speaker 1The history of Fort Dodge is closely espoused to both the frontier experience of Kansas and the growing commercial roads which cross that state to serve the entire nation . The commercial frontier stretched and spanned the prairies of Kansas by 1821 , approximately three decades before the arrival of the settlers frontier . Captain William Beknell's successful expedition in 1821 demonstrated the feasibility of crossing the plains to trade with Mexico . As a result , the volume of goods carried by pack mules and wagon train grew dramatically during the years which followed Beknell's initial venture . By 1826 , the trade had become reciprocal as enterprising Mexican merchants , following the cue of their American counterparts along the Missouri River , sought to share in the newly discovered wealth of prairie commerce . As the returns from these capitalistic ventures grew , notable companies like Russell , majors and Waddell soon sent thousands of wagons onto the plains each year . But unfortunately thieves and Indians soon appeared to challenge the wagon master for the goods he carried , and violence became a constant companion of the emerging commercial frontier .
Speaker 1The commercial enterprise of goods traveling along the Santa Fe Trail drew many attacks from malicious marauders . The continued success of their attacks forced the patrons of the trains to petition the government for protection . Of the two alternatives available to the military for providing some measure of protection along the trail , that of sending detachments of troops down the trail on punitive expeditions from military posts near the eastern terminus of the route , or of establishing minor military posts manned by small detachments at strategic points along the entire way , neither proved to be entirely satisfactory . Marauding bands of Indians retired before the challenge of a superior force , usually choosing to attack public trains or small military units rather than risk the chance of a significant defeat . As soon as a sizable military force had withdrawn in frustration , the Indians were free to continue their attacks on less dangerous prey .
Speaker 1Perhaps the most vulnerable location for attacks on trains moving over the Santa Fe Trail was at the Cimarron Crossing of the Arkansas River . This site had initially served as a favorite rendezvous point for mountain trappers after the Arkansas River west of the Great Bend had become a portion of the United States' western international boundary with Spain by the provisions of the Adams-Ones Treaty of 1819 . As a result , the Cimarron soon became a sizable camping and trading ground which was used various times by mountain men , traders , wagon trains , military detachments and Indians . Wagon trains usually rested for several days at the Cimarron before continuing along the trail . When trains drawn to the campsites to trade and beg often attacked these trains during the fording , when they were most vulnerable . Even significant , well-armed trains could be overrun if the attack was time to fall in the travelers while the river's waters split their numbers .
Speaker 1Fort Mann , established in 1846 as a quartermaster's station rather than a troop base , was used by some volunteer troops during 1847 and 1848 . In April of 1847 , 40 teamsters under Campden Daniel P Mann , a master teamster , began construction of the post . The post was named Fort Mann after him . By late May construction was completed . The fort consisted of four flat-roofed buildings laid out in a rectangle , with large courtyard at the center . The buildings were positioned so the stockade wall on the opposite side of the gate was on the north side of the fort . The buildings constructed of wood and adobe were connected by four sections of wooden stockade walls at angles , giving the post an octagonal shape . At the center of one of the stockade walls was a gate one foot thick . The gate opened at its center . Loop holes were cut into the stockade walls to allow those inside to shoot outside in case of an attack . A six-pounder cannon , sometimes called a mountain howitzer , was mounted on wheels . Adobe breastworks were built on the roof of both the northwest building and the southeast building In response to the growing frequency of Indian attacks .
Speaker 1Fort Mann , in reality a way station , was established near an unsafe point of the Cimarron in 1845 . Nevertheless , the military significance of the post was considered modest . The fortifications of the post consisted of nothing more than four log houses set in a square and connected by log walls 20 feet high and 60 feet long . Thus , the log houses of Fort Mann could garrison only a small detachment of troops . However , travelers along the route welcomed the opportunity to rest , repair their equipment and trade tired or disabled draft animals for rested stock , previously exchanged by an earlier train , without the threat of attack on the open prairie . The volume of goods passing Fort Mann increased dramatically during the Mexican War as the military wrestled with the problem of supplying large armies in the field over several thousand miles of challenging terrain . Finally , during 1848 , the war with Mexico ended . The sharp reduction in government trains that accompanied peace led to Fort Mann's abandonment in 1850 , when a new post , fort Atkinson , was established six miles downstream .
Speaker 1The original Fort Atkinson was established on August 8th 1850 by the US Army to prevent Indians in the area from attacking travelers on the Santa Fe Trail . Even before this , a site nearby was occupied in July 1850 by Lieutenant Colonel Edwin Vos Sumner . Fort Atkinson 1850-1854 , was the first regular army post on the Santa Fe Trail in the heart of the Indian country , located some six or eight miles up the river from the current site of Dodge City . Camp McKay was established near the middle crossing of the Arkansas River . On September 12th 1850 , the soldiers at Camp McKay moved to the new post on the Arkansas River , known until June of 1851 , when it was named Fort Atkinson .
Speaker 1The fort was built of sod , covered with poles , brush sod and canvas . The post measured 150 feet on the north side , 355 feet on the east and west sides and 60 feet on the south side . The officer quarters were along the north wall and the enlisted barracks were along the west wall . The soldiers' quarter there gave it the name Fort Sod and later Fort Sodom . It was known as Camp McKay until June 25th 1851 , when the name was changed to Fort Atkinson . Unlike Fort Mann , which had served the needs of public and commercial trains to a much greater extent than chastising marauding Indians , fort Atkinson was designed to function primarily as a traditional military installation . Yet the life of this new post was short . The recurrence of Indian attacks on the Santa Fe Trail travelers declined sharply during the following years , and Fort Atkinson was abandoned in 1853 . And now Wild West Podcast proudly presents Deb Goodrich .
Speaker 3Hi Deb Goodrich . This is Mike King and I have Brad and Brad Smolley with me , and welcome to Wild West Podcast . Thank you for being a part of our show . We really appreciate you being here and you have so much of a fabulous background in history in Kansas and we've been following you and at least I've been following you for a while and the television programs that you put together , the books that you've written . So give us a little bit of background information on yourself and what you're currently working on .
Preserving History and Personal Connections
Speaker 2Well , I grew up in Virginia . I grew up in Southwestern Virginia and Patrick County , which is the home place of J E B Stewart , who gained fame , of course , as the Confederate cavalry commander , but most of his adult life was spent in Kansas Territory in the US Army .
Speaker 3So I'm sorry . That's correct and we did a short story on the Battle of Solomon Fork , which was he was a part of that , a part of the history that has been documented that possibly that Custer was involved in the attack that may have ended Jeb Stewart's
[Ad] “Being There: Stories from the Road Where We Keep the Rubber Side Down”
Speaker 3life .
Speaker 2Yeah , the Wolverines , yeah , were part of that battle Yellow
(Cont.) Preserving History and Personal Connections
Speaker 2Cavern , where Jeb Stewart was mortally wounded . So , yeah , custer was indirectly responsible . So , yeah , custer's not real popular in my part of the world , but I went to high school in Stewart that was actually named Jeb Stewart after the Civil War was over , and then the farm where he was born and raised was owned by my cousins and it was only I don't know a couple of miles from my home . So , yeah , it intimately acquainted with the ground where he grew up . And so the movie that changed my life seriously was the movie Santa Fe Trail , with Errol Flynn playing Jeb Stewart , and I can remember watching that as a kid . And you know , errol Flynn is playing her hometown boy and that's about as good as it gets .
Speaker 1So I was you didn't go wrong with Errol Flynn , that's . That's no kidding .
Speaker 2So I was a porter . I started when I was 15 working for the local newspaper in Stewart and I just kept getting jobs . So I worked for newspapers and radio stations back home and would take a college class now and then . But in 1992 , I decided that I wanted to finish my degree and live somewhere else . So I came to Topeka and went to Washburn as a nontraditional student and I didn't plan to stay in Kansas .
Speaker 2But I was walking through the Pika Cemetery one day because you know I'm from the South so we love dead people . So I was walking through the cemetery and stumbled literally over the grave of Cyrus K Holiday and the only reason I knew his name was because of that movie . And that's when I realized that all these people had been right here . You know right where I was standing John Brown and and Jeb Stewart and , and later you know Coaster and Holiday and all these folks . And I was hooked . That was it . I was just absolutely hooked . I was already studying the of my history degree . The focus was the American West . So I was hooked . I've been a Kansas never said .
Speaker 3Well , we are so privileged to have you here today , and and you just , I mean the the stories of Kansas and the history of Kansas is so expansive . I mean , we began our journey approximately about three years ago and we haven't even scratched the surface .
Speaker 2Oh , no , no yeah .
Speaker 3So you're currently working on a book , right , and you've written several , and you've written several before this . So can you tell us a little bit about the venture you're on now and maybe a little bit about the book that you've written some of the books that you've written in the past ?
Speaker 2I'm really embroiled in two or three very big projects right now . For one , I am the chair of the 200th anniversary of the Santa Fe Trail and I'm very , very honored to be part of that . And I wasn't chosen because of my expertise . I was chosen because of my big mouth , and that has served them well , that's why we do what we do together .
Speaker 2Yeah , you work with what you've got , you know . But I'm so fortunate that there's so many people working hard and doing really cool things and I just get to tell people about it , you know .
Speaker 2So that's wonderful , and the 200th commemoration will actually run through 2025 for a couple of reasons . There are significant anniversaries , number one and number two . Covid has necessarily caused the delay or postponement or cancellation of some of the anniversary events , so by running that anniversary into 2025 , we can make sure to include all those entities and communities that really want to be a part of it . The other thing I'm involved in is a docudrama called the Contested Plains , and that is the story of the German family massacre the German family , that being their name , not their nationality .
Speaker 2We're traveling through Kansas in 1874 and route to a new homestead in Colorado when they were attacked by a raiding party of Cheyennes led by a medicine-moderate , moki , who both had survived Sand Creek and the Wachita , and five of the family members were killed and four were taken captive . So it's one of the most famous stories , one of the most gut-wrenching stories on every level . Whether you're talking about the family or the Cheyennes . It's just heartbreaking . But we have already started filming . We have Ken Spurgeon and I , our co-executive producers , along with Anita Gillette from the White Deer Land Museum in Pampa , texas , and we're really , really excited about this project . It's going to be really special .
Speaker 1And then Every reason to be there . I got to work with Ken before on the last project that he did about Home on the Range , so we're pretty excited about this new one coming up here too .
Speaker 3And Josh Rosner was in that too , was it ? Yeah , home on the range .
Speaker 2Yeah , couple of us home down Home on the range was Hena stood out of the park and of course I've been at least tangentially involved in just about everything Ken's done , because I just I just won't let him get by without using it somehow .
Speaker 1But he has a knack for bringing people like that .
Speaker 2He does have a knack and he's an award-winning filmmaker . I'm just so proud to be partnering with Ken on anything and so , yeah , the quality of this we started filming a couple of weeks ago , and the quality crew and cast , and oh my gosh , I'm just absolutely blown away . So I can't wait to come back and talk to you when that actually is completed , probably early next year . So , yeah , that's exciting , very exciting .
Speaker 3We look forward to that . One of the things that we are currently working on , or we have taken on as WildWars podcast , is the preservation of Fort Dodge , and can you talk to us a little bit about the importance of the preservation of history and why that is so important to future generations ?
Speaker 2Well , I'm the Derby Texas historian and resident at the Fort Wallace Museum in Wallace , kansas , and we don't have anything left of Fort Wallace . When the fort was reconmissioned in 1882 , the buildings were scavenged for building materials wood and dressed stone were really valuable , and that has made it difficult to interpret the story of Fort Wallace in some cases . The thing that had made it easier is that we have at least part of the post cemetery . When those posts were decommissioned , the cemeteries were often relocated , so the soldiers were moved , but the civilians and army scouts were left . So even having that cemetery , I can't tell you how important that is . Just having the stones and we have a marker that the seventh cavalry and the third infantry erected in 1867 for their fallen comrades .
Speaker 2And having something that people can touch and see is so meaningful and we've likened it in projects in the past to a piece of the cross . Everybody wants a piece of the cross , and when you can walk up to a building , when you can stand on the same ground and you know that these important people , these important events happened right here on the very threshold that I'm standing in , it just makes it more real and I think our goal as historians is to bring it to life , to make it real , and we need every pool we can employ to do that , to bring it home that these people this is what's so important to me about history these people that we're talking about were just like us . They didn't know what tomorrow would bring . They were fallible , they were nervous , they had families that they were worried about , they had bills to pay . They had you know , are we gonna be able to make the crop this year ? They had all the same concerns , just wearing different clothes or different manifestations around them , but the same issues , and I think that's one of the things that is so hard for people to understand .
Speaker 2You look at the past and they're omniscient . You know they knew it all . Well , no , they didn't . They're just like us , and if we understand that , then it gives us hope in our own struggles . But , yeah , we can find our way too , and so I just I can't overstate the importance of preservation and what it means . You know , at Fort Wallace , we've I think we've done a very good job of using other things to communicate that past , because we don't have the actual fort . We've come up with other things , but when you've got that , oh my goodness , you've got every reason in the world to save it and not let it go .
Speaker 3Yeah , I agree with that . Is there anything that you would like to say to the committee members who are currently working on this project , but what things they might do to encourage public response to the preservation of Port Dodge ?
Speaker 2I think one of the things that is so important and the fact that there is the soldiers home now , I think , is so , so significant One of the things that impressed me most when I came to Kansas and began really studying Kansas history long before Kansas was the sunflower state , it was the soldier state and I don't think we can overemphasize the meaning of that the soldier state .
Speaker 3Very good point . Very good point , yes .
Speaker 2Telling the stories of those soldiers , whether they're our men and women serving now or the ones that were called to duty here in the past . I don't think that can be overemphasized , and the fact that we're in the heartland and that we were the soldier state and are the soldier state is so meaningful . I used to consult at Fort Leavenworth on issues of well , on media relations , and then I'd also help with staff rights . So going through the Hall of Fame at Fort Leavenworth as the soldiers who have come to Kansas to study their art and we're not talking about you know , it's like people outside military often see the military as it's all about training people to kill somebody . It's all about guns . It's all about training people like this . No , it's about training people to defend us , to keep us safe .
Speaker 2Yes , it's absolutely correct and that is so vital . There's nothing more crucial to being American than that , and I just can't overstate how important it is to preserve those soldier's stories and to keep telling them . You know , we don't stop with . 150 years ago we say that and then we keep telling the stories of our soldiers .
Speaker 3Brad , do you have any questions for her ?
Speaker 1I don't believe I do , but I want to wish you all the best of luck working with Ken on the docus drama . Very much looking forward to seeing that come to fruition and I hope to run into you again one of these days shortly . Deb .
Speaker 3And we would like to invite you back sometime in the near future and just kind of catch up , find out how the project's going , how the book's going and things that you are involved in . We're looking forward to working with you , hearing from you , and we sure appreciate everything that you're doing to preserve history in Kansas and you're doing a fantastic job . And again , thank you for being part of us today Likewise .
Speaker 2Thank you so much .
Speaker 3You bet and we are closing out and we thank you again .
Podcasts we love
Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.
